Wave C in a 2nd wave

[finster869]

Since we cannot have a "failed wave", am I correct that c waves must always be equal to or greater than wave a in a correction, unless it is the c wave of an RTB which can float above or below the a?

For instance, in a bull market, does the C wave in a second wave have to be lower in price than the A wave so it is not considered "failed"?

[Steely Dan]

Finster, Thanks for asking, this was yet another question bubbling just below the surface that I was meaning to ask. I will re-read the e-book to see if I can locate the answer. Anyone else? Tom?

[theoryman]

(03-07-2010 11:15 AM)finster869 Wrote:  Since we cannot have a "failed wave", am I correct that c waves must always be equal to or greater than wave a in a correction, unless it is the c wave of an RTB which can float above or below the a?

For instance, in a bull market, does the C wave in a second wave have to be lower in price than the A wave so it is not considered "failed"?

I thought Tom had already answered this in responses to finster's question on wave 2s and mine on internal structure of RTBs.

No wave can fail nor can any subwave within it - because at its own level the subwave is seen as a wave.

So the end of every subwave C must reach or exceed the end of every subwave A - otherwise the internal structure of the correction would contain a failure.

For example, if the a of an RTB retrends in its own right, the c must at least get to the same level - it is not allowed to finish short of the target set by the a.

At the point where if I am wrong on this, I am going to give up.

cheers theory

[TS Hennessy]

(03-08-2010 12:55 PM)theoryman Wrote:  I thought Tom had already answered this in responses to finster's question on wave 2s and mine on internal structure of RTBs.

No wave can fail nor can any subwave within it - because at its own level the subwave is seen as a wave.

So the end of every subwave C must reach or exceed the end of every subwave A - otherwise the internal structure of the correction would contain a failure.

For example, if the a of an RTB retrends in its own right, the c must at least get to the same level - it is not allowed to finish short of the target set by the a.

At the point where if I am wrong on this, I am going to give up.

cheers theory

You are correct in your reply. I just am not sure what you meant in that
last part, after 'for example'.

But whatever you do - Don't Quit!

[theoryman]

(03-08-2010 01:54 PM)TS Hennessy Wrote:  

(03-08-2010 12:55 PM)theoryman Wrote:  I thought Tom had already answered this in responses to finster's question on wave 2s and mine on internal structure of RTBs.

No wave can fail nor can any subwave within it - because at its own level the subwave is seen as a wave.

So the end of every subwave C must reach or exceed the end of every subwave A - otherwise the internal structure of the correction would contain a failure.

For example, if the a of an RTB retrends in its own right, the c must at least get to the same level - it is not allowed to finish short of the target set by the a.

At the point where if I am wrong on this, I am going to give up.

cheers theory

You are correct in your reply. I just am not sure what you meant in that
last part, after 'for example'.

But whatever you do - Don't Quit!

Tom,
In finster's original question he included the phrase:

"unless it is the c wave of an RTB which can float above or below the a".

In your answer to my question about the internal structure of RTBs, you explained that there can be no internal failure within the B itself at subwave level i.e. the c subwave must end at or beyond the end of the a subwave.

That is the point I was referring back to, just in case finster had not seen the original answer.

I am now wondering though whether finster was actually referring to the waves at the same level as the RTB within the 4th i.e. the A and the C.

cheers theory

[theoryman]

I think the following might help - then again it might not.

1 ABC2 3 - the C within the 2 must not fail compared to the A.

123 ABC4 which happens to be a non-RTB 4th, then the C within the 4th must not fail compared to the A.

123 ABC4 where it is a RTB, then the role of the C changes. Its minimum requirement is only to be seen - hence it can fail compared to the end of the A. [Edited sentence + one removed.]

[Added question]

So why isn't this last example or the one in the diagram on P24 where circled yellow c fails to reach the end of circled yellow a; not counted as a failure? Are just those parts of an RTB 4th exempt from the failure rule or have I totally misunderstood the definition of failure?

cheers theory

[TS Hennessy]

RTB 4th waves extend the trend and that might be considered to be some
kind of failure I suppose, but it depends upon definition.

The waves have been doing this forever without definitions so it is just
observations on our part. The waves make their rules.

Visibility of C is a good measure if you have to take a shortcut in counting.
It is not required but generally follows this and is a great help at times.

The C in an RTB 4th does not need to do anything but be a valid 5 wave
motive and contain an RTB 4th of its own.

In doing that it meets its requirement.

Perhaps because it has the freedom to break the corrective mold is why
it is also able to 'succeed' as a corrective even with the B wave at
times only partially retraced.

In recognizing a new rule we also recognize that it is indeed a different
regular structure and therefore has a different success/failure criteria.